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Je t'adore (Shut The Door)
by Dave
Friday, March 14, 2008
Jenny writes in to say/ask:I recently read an article you had written back in 2006 and loved it! I agree with you and in the town I live in they believe they should keep their hips open upon release. I had pitching lessons when I was younger (20+ years ago), that is not how I was taught. Now that my daughter is pitching I don't want her to learn the open hip style. Here is the quote from your arcticle that I love:
"Michele Smith while broadcasting on national TV tells pitchers to leave their hips open at a 45 degree angle. I've yet to find anyone who agrees with that but I'm sure A) it worked for her and B) there are coaches out there teaching it who are very successful but who I haven't heard speak. But I am at least ready to be suspicious of any coach who expresses this approach. If I come across such a coach, I'll ask her or him the key question "Why?" in order to judge for myself."
Now I found a man with a very different opinion, I would love for you to read it and tell me what you think.
OK, Jenny, I'm going to bite because I enjoy the topic. Before I begin, let me say that I am a blogger with a passion for the sport. I'm no pitching coach. I'm a consumer, not a supplier. It is my understanding that Bill Hillhouse is a windmill pitching expert of fairly high stature. As such, all I can do is respond to what he writes and let you decide for yourself whether you agree or not. I have heard many discussions about the topic and remain convinced that "leaving the door open" does not accomplish what the proponents of this "style" claim it does, while closing it does not, at least in my experience, seem to cause the problems they identify. I want to respond to the specific article you cite in pieces because I believe this is the best way for me to break down the argument.
For readers' reference, here is the article: "The Big Lies" Actually, the part of interest is just a piece of the overall article. You can find the relevant portion under number 2
Bill says:
"I'm willing to bet, if your pitcher was taught this method she either did or does the following: Right handed pitchers throwing INSIDE to right handed batters a lot. (Lefties would be the opposite, away from right handed batters). If this fits you, then you've fallen into the same category as 99% of the pitchers who've been taught this method."
Actually, in my experience, the opposite is true. Girls who do not "close the door" end up throwing the ball inside too far. I've seen this happen hundreds of times and each one of the pitchers who began closing the door had better control - stopped throwing the ball inside (righty pitcher to righty batter). My own kids had this problem initially but they corrected it and stopped hitting batters!
The problem to me is,when you leave the door open, this is not a natural motion - I'll address that momentarily. The end result is the pitcher ends up with her weight distributed mostly to her landing foot and she must to some degree hold back her body's natural momentum on the pivot foot side. The failure to close the door stops the motion before it is completed and results in leaving the ball outside.
Pitchers at higher levels do not experience the problems associated with closing or leaving open the door because they compensate for their particular motion. They do this in subtle ways which are not readily apparent but I think what is most important is, you can't win or lose this argument based exclusively on control issues. Younger pitchers will demonstrate a wildness one way or the other but this doesn;t answer the essential question of which mechanics are right. The premise that Bill offers up is a moot point.
There are a couple levers at work when you perform the windmill motion. Too often I think we consider only the arm lever. Of course, we include the legs in our consideration of the motion but we forget about the one lever which is relevant to this particular discussion.
At the beginning of the windmill motion, the body generates kinetic force from its inertia by driving the legs. The pivot foot-leg push the body's mass forward about the time the arm reaches the top of the circle. The body's weight-in-motion gives an added force to that generated exclusively by the arm in its circle. The windmill circle is the key lever in pitching the ball fast - the arm's speed is what is directly converted to the ball as it is released - but there is more going on than that.
As the landing foot comes to ground, a sideways body lever also occurs. The landing foot's contact with the Earth is a resistance point the same way a batter's front foot creates a resistance against the bodies forward momentum caused via the legs and hips. That resistance converts energy from the body's forward motion to the ball side since the landing foot is glove side. This is why you sometimes feel pain in the glove side knee and legs after throwing a lot. You expend energy creating that resistance as your foot comes to ground and your landing leg bends and flexes. The result is your ball side of the the body swings like a door on a hinge. That lever is important because, while it is not moving as fast as the arm, it contains more kinetic energy due to its greater mass - the mass of the body.
If you doubt this, consider that pitchers never throw with their "landing foot" in the air even though the body does have more forward momentum before the landing foot lands. In other words, your body contains more forward energy in the form of its mass and the speed it is moving when your pivot foot has just completed its push off - the pivot foot has just begun dragging. That is before the landing foot has landed. When your landing foot comes to ground, that resistance slows the body's overall speed and, therefore, kinetic force. Yet it is a necessary step in order to focus the kinetic energy to the throwing side via the landing side resistance and the sideways lever necessary for throwing.
I am of the opinion that deliberately leaving the door open is unnatural because after you create the landing leg resistance, your body wants to swing the door shut. In my opinion, to leave the door open, you have to make a conscious effort to stop the throwing hand side. But I want to address another of Bill's points in order to make that argument.
Bill says:
"Bringing the hip and hand through together (slamming the door) takes the arm off line of the catcher and into the pitchers side. This tends to send the ball in the direction of the pitcher's throwing side. If power is REALLY generated this way, I'd like someone to explain to me why, in overhand throwing, we don't step with our right leg at the same time as we throw with our right hand. It's because POWER is lost this way. When we throw overhand, our arm goes first, then the leg."
I agree that when we throw overhand, the arm goes first and then the leg. But this is something which occurs within a millisecond. The legs push, the throwing arm brings the ball and then the leg and hip follows right behind. I do mean right behind. A fielder turns 90 degrees to his/her target while pulling the ball back, throws the ball and "follows through." The "follow through" involves everything on the throwing side half of the body and it very much closes.
If you watch baseball pitchers closely, the very best have drastic follow throughs. The end result has the pitcher turned beyond square (over-rotated) with his throwing hand shoulder forward of the other shoulder, the hand down by the landing leg knee or even past it, and the pivot leg in the air with hips over-rotated beyond square too. Many right handed fastballers finish their motion with the right shouolder poiting at home and the overall body position open 45 degrees to first base. This is why, in baseball, you teach players to bunt to the pitching arm side of fastballers beyond the reach of the third baseman. Fireballers generally "fall off" to the glove hand side which provides the bunter with an advantage.
When you throw overhand without going through the full pitching motion, you don't follow through quite as drastically but your body does end up being slightly over-rotated. You do not end up being open 45 degrees to the target or you haven't gotten anything on the ball - you failed to avail yourself of the sideways lever, to use your body's kinetic energy created by footwork. Don;t take my word for it as I almost did after reading Bill's discussion. Go out and play a brief game of catch. If you are a righty, you end your throwing motion almost falling over to your right hand side. I guarantee you that you will end up over-rotated. I'd be winning to bet a lot on that one!
I think Bill believes that close-the-door windmill instruction involves closing the hip at precisely the same moment with the release of the ball. Heck I might have even said something like that here or there. I'd be surprised if some pitching coach didn't use that language but I don't believe that is what is intended. It just isn't possible.
You can only shut a door before or after you walk through it. Two objects cannot occupy the same identical space simultaneously. The pitching hand and hip go through about the same space when using the close the door "style." It stands to reason that the hip must come after or go before the pitching hand. It cannot go at the same moment. And if you try to close the door before bringing the ball, you are going to experience pain like you won't believe, not to mention some nasty bruises on your leg!
I don't necessarily believe that an examination of overhand throwing is relevant to a full discussion of windmill beyond the recognition that the sideways lever - the one caused by resistance of your landing leg - requires a closing of the door. It isn't possible to stop the door from closing without making an effort to do it. And if you want to test this out, try going back to your game of catch and forcing yourself to end up open to your throwing hand side by 45 degrees after every throw. You will end up doing exactly what Bill seems to be trying to avoid.
As a final point to this specific part, Bill seems to feel as if the open 45 degrees approach ends right at ball release. He doesn't proceed to the half second after the ball is released. He stops looking at the hips once the ball has been released. I know this because he also says, "Ever see still photos of your pitching heroes ... Where is their hand/ball at the release ... It's under their stomach or in front of their body." I beg to differ. But before I do, I MUST consider what pitch my favorite star has thrown for the camera before I examine where her hand is.
The fact is when we talk about closing the door or not, we aren't getting very specific. We must be talking about a plain vanilla fastball since each pitch has a different follow through. And my favorite pitchers do not throw many fastballs. That's clear to you'all isn't it? If it isn't, let me state it clearly. Big time female windmillers do not throw a lot of fastballs. I would be surprised if they represented ten percent of the mix in anyone beyond maybe high school JV. Even that's a stretch. My 13 year old doesn't throw that many fastballs anymore. She did in 12U but after that, it's the movement pitches which dominate the way the four seamer does in baseball.
And each pitch requires different follow throughs. But I want to get into this below because of something else Bill talks about. And I think Bill's understanding of what the open-door folks are saying is different than my own.
Michele Smith doesn't simply say that your hips should be open at ball release, she says they should remain that way. In other words, after the ball has been released and before the pitcher makes any additional motion, as she would if she were trying to field a grounder, her hips remain open that same 45 degrees. Put another way, if she freezes after the pitch and just stays there, watching the batter swing and miss, her hips will remain open 45 degrees. I said it before but I'll repeat myself. That means she must make a conscious effort to maintain her openness since the body wants to close the door due to the force caused by the landing leg's resistance. She must expend energy to stop her body's momentum by flexing back and abdominal muscles. I just don;t see how that can possibly help a pitcher's speed.
Finally, Bill says:
"This also ties into the riseball, which is the most misunderstood and controversial pitch in the game. Because so many people share this mechanical philosophy of "slam the door", it's physically impossible to get back spin on the ball."
As I began to say above, the type of pitch dictates a lot including the follow through. The riseball and screw are open-hip pitches. There's no way to get spin on the ball and bring the hip. But your whole body's mechanics are different on rises and screws than they would be for a fastball. The same is true for curves which absolutely require a door closed beyond its frame - over-rotated hips. The flip drop needs open hip. Your change depends on the variety you throw - I think a closed door works best for backhand and reach-and-turn changes but an open hip is better for the old stop your arm in your armpit change. I don;t know about knuckle changes - I haven't seen them used much. You want your change to look like other pitches and that probably dictates whether you close or leav open the door. If you're a riseball pitcher, chances are pretty good you leave your hip open on your changes too.
Let me wrap this up by saying that I'm not sure I completely disagree with Bill Hillhouse. The differences between our approaches might be extremely slight. I believe the pitching mechanics Michelle Smith talks about are more drastically differentand those are the ones I disagree with most. The again, maybe I'm not understanding her.
With respect to what Bill wrote as a refutation of closed-door mechanics, I think he is exactly wrong in his understanding of overhand throwing. It's clear to me that overhand pitchers over-rotate and that any overhand thrower will close the door right behind them. That may not be entirely relevant to an examination of windmill but it does say something about the sideways lever we absolutely do use when throwing both underhand and overhand. The door can never close simultaneously with the ball release. It must happen afterwards. And the pitch variety has a huge impact on pitching mechanics. Nobody is advocating a closed door on a riseball. For that matter, nobody is advocating a closed door on very many pitches. But try to throw a drop curve with your hips remaing open 45 degrees. Now that would be a cute trick but don't try it - you'll hurt yourself.
Follow-up:
A number of folks have written in to advocate for open hips. I cannot publish them all. Here is the most concise one and my reply:
Patrick writes in to say:
Dave,
Regarding your recent entry on "Closing the Door." I went back and viewed video of Smith, Finch, and Fernandez on YouTube and it seems to me they all use an open hips/ no closing style. Now I think it is arguable that these are 3 of the best women's fastpitch pitchers to play the game. Isn't that strong evidence of the strength of that style? Please feel free to correct me if I have mischaracterized their style and it is not what you were referring to in your entry.
Patrick,
You forgot Cat Osterman, Taryne Mowatt, Monica Abbott, and several others! But, no, that doesn't convince me that their style is the most correct one, the most efficient movement possible. Take a look at Yukiko Ueno (http://youtube.com/watch?v=GX9Ss0jtGso). Now this, is a relatively short pitcher (about 5 foot 6?) and she has been recorded at 73 miles per hour (perhaps higher?). She is a closed hip pitcher. I consider that strong evidence that closing the hip is more efficient.Labels: pitching
Permanent Link: Je t'adore (Shut The Door)
 
Live Batting Practice
by Dave
Thursday, March 13, 2008
Stan writes in to ask:"Dave: When softball pitchers throw live batting practice, should they slow down their pitches to about 70% so the hitters can hit the ball? My daughters pitching coach says that pitchers should never throw batting practice where they are trying to slow down the pitch. He says this will hurt them concerning their pitching and muscle memory. nbsp; He also says you don't want the girls to get the mental image of being hit hard and hit all the time. Then we have my daughter's high school coach who wants the pitchers to slow it down in batting practice and just get it over so the girls can see live pitching and hit the ball. The high school coach is coming strictly from the standpoint of batters and not considering the pitchers.
Here is my reply:
Stan,
I don't have an opinion about whether a pitcher will suffer, in terms of muscle memory, from throwing easily and slow during a batting practice. I'm also uncertain of whether throwing 70% and getting hit hard would impact a pitcher's psyche per se. But I will say that I disagree with a pitcher throwing 70% of effort in a live batting practice, particularly at that level, unless she is throwing 65-70 mph or is otherwise completely unhittable. In that case, the coach probably doesn't want her to be throwing any BP. I don't need to consider the pitcher's psyche, muscle memory, or anything else however to conclude that you don't want pitchers throwing 70% to her own team's hitters.
Let's, for the sake of argument, look at this from the hitters' point of view or from the coach looking to conduct batting practice's point of view. What exactly is the point of a hitter facing live pitching just so she can hit the ball hard? There is none.
The way I view batting practice is: 1) perfecting swing mechanics; 2) developing good habits at the plate - not swinging at balls, picking pitches depending on the count, etc.; and 3) getting ready to face pitching in games. I would say that 60-70% of your time is spent with number 1, particularly in off season and pre-season. 20% of your time and effort is usually spent on number 2, generally accomplished via scrimmages and live batting practice. And about 10% of your preparation is spent on number 3, mostly during scrimmages, particularly as the season approaches.
I believe it is imperative to work at the tee during every practice. The tee, soft toss and other drills are intended to perfect the swing. That's the single most important aspect to batting practice though it gets tedious at times. Every big time hitter works at the tee in-season and out. If your swing is no good, it really doesn't matter how good of a decision making process you have or how ready you are for genuine, live pitching. Most slumps are attributable to bad mechanics due to a hitter falling off their best swing.
The reality of motor memory dictates that you take thousands of swings at the tee in preparation for live pitching. A hitter must take proper swings every day in order to be ready for games. This is accomplished far more easily at the tee than in any other fashion. When a hitter is taking say 100 good swings a day, then and only then should she be concerned with game-type situational (live-pitched) hitting in which she works on her judgment, timing and picking up the ball out of the pitcher's hand at the plate.
At this point, I think it is important to see as much pitching as a coach can fit in. But that pitching should be real - should involve pitchers doing what they do best, throwing to try to get batters out. If you are trying to make good decisions with respect to swinging at strikes rather than balls, the last thing you need is a girl out there grooving everything down the middle and not trying to nail corners. If you are trying to zone in for, as an example, 2-0 or 2-1 counts, you want somebody trying to get you out by nipping the corners of the zone or throwing to your weak spots. If you want to get ready to judge when to protect the plate on 0-2, you need somebody trying to make you swing at bad pitches. You really do not want the ball thrown so you can hit it. That defeats the purpose of seeing live pitching.
Finally, when you have your swing mechanics and judgment in place, you want to get yourself ready for games so you need to face live pitching. But that pitching would benefit you most if it were in real conditions like you would face in the real world. It is fine to face live pitching outside real game situations but if those situations, such as a real count and/or runners on base, can be added, the practice is more meaningful.
I know of several girls who, when they take their batting instruction, face live pitchers. One girl faces a pitcher several levels above her (she's oin high school and the pitcher pitched 4 years of college already as well as a year in the pro league). That pitcher also happens to be her batting coach. I'm sure she doesn't throw her top speed or movement when she pitches BP but I do know that she makes an effort to get her student to miss so she can uncover flaws. These are valuable BP sessions.
I know another girl (a big high school hitter) who gets bored when she does too much tee or soft toss hitting. For whatever reason, she cannot remain focused for an hour through the drudgery of plain ordinary hitting work. She needs to see a live pitched ball in order to get that edge she needs to improve. She does her drudgery work too but she can;t motivate herself unless she sees live pitching at least once a week. I believe she and her father get frustrated when a pitcher throws around the plate instead of cream-puffing it over the plate but they do not realize how little she would benefit from this. Luckily for them, most pitchers they are able to find work the corners and mix it up.
With the two travel teams I am currently involved with, we run live pitched batting practice once a week. But nobody every suggests that the pitchers not pitch like they would in real games. On the 14U team, we mostly use live pitching to conduct a bunting drill. In these instances, it is important for the pitchers to throw with reasonable control and to throw on and off the corners. We want the girls' bunt mechanics to be right but we also want them to make decisions about which balls to bunt at and which ones to pull back on. Pitchers throw like they want to get these girls out. We do want the pitchers to throw at least 50% strikes because the mechanical aspect of things is important in these sessions and our time is very limited. We don't want pitchers to throw four or more consecutive balls but, on the other hand, we aren't looking for 10 straight strikes either. And we never want 70% speed or just a lot of fastballs.
On the 12U team I help out with, we run a live batting practice which is more the style I prefer. In those sessions, its every girl for herself! Pitchers work hard to not let the hitters hit the ball. Batters work at not swinging at pitches they don't like. We call balls and strikes. The girls get really into it and are extremely competitive with one another. Catchers actually have brief conferences with pitchers to decide how to work against batters. They call real pitches in an effort to defeat the batters. The hitters are looking to beat the pitchers too. If a batter hits one hard, the pitcher will begin throwing changes, drops, etc. This has been a very valuable tool. Our hitters are well prepared for the season.
In closing, I have obsevred many coaches implore their pitchers to just get the ball over or throw a little less hard during live batting practices. A few years ago, I might have made the suggestion myself but that was at lower age groups in which nobody was particularly skilled or confident. Once we moved my 10U daughter back to pitch from 40 feet so the girls could make contact. But that was because my daughter was dominant at that level and the batting practice, pitched at 35 feet, consisted of maybe 2 or 3 girls fouling off one or two out 30 pitches. There was no purpose to that but that was 10U. I doubt I'd ever have a pitcher throw half speed to anyone over 11 again. I certainly wouldn't do it at the high school level.
At the high school level, girls should have decent hitting mechanics and use most of their BP time perfecting them. I have observed one very good hitting team work on machine pitched balls quite a bit. They turn the machine up to very high speeds sometimes to help develop timing and recognition. But most of the time, machine hitting is done as if it were tee or soft toss. Girls take 20 or 30 swings and try to make contact with everything thrown. They also play more scrimmages than anybody else so they don't bother with live pitched batting practice. Their girls develop their skills by facing real opponents.
My guess is you and your daughter are in a "situation." That is, the coach of her team is demanding that she throw 70% speed, keep it simple, and put it over the middle of the plate. You'd like to ring her or his neck and you want some sort of ammunition to change the coach's mind. I doubt I can give you that though, in my mind, the coach is completely wrong. What I suggest you do is have your daughter do one of the following:
1) ignore the coach or pretend she is trying to comply,
2) work on her change-up or other slow pitches,
3) work on throwing with specific control goals while appearing to throw slower, or
4) threaten to quit,
Beyond that, I'm not sure what to tell you. Inexperience is a dangerous thing in coaching. What you cannot do is just comply if you think it will do your daughter harm.Labels: batting practice, coaching
Permanent Link: Live Batting Practice
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